(1:14) Erica Freckelton details what demand creation is

(2:06) Erica and Kriste describe the importance of understanding who your ideal target market is and the process.

(4:39) Erica explains the difference between demand capture and lead generation. 

(5:56) Erica and Kriste lay out where marketers should be spending their time.

(8:38) Erica explains where demand creation and demand capture happen.

(10:30) Erica talks about damming demand.

[00:00:00.330] – Kriste Goad

Hey, welcome to How It’s done. A podcast for Curious Marketers. I’m Kriste Goad. I’ll be your host, and I’m really glad you’re here. We’re back today with Erica Freckelton for part two in our three part series on B two B buying in healthcare. Today, we’re tackling demand creation versus demand capture. In part one of our series, we talked about how B two B buying behavior has changed and what that means for healthcare marketers. If you missed it, be sure to check it out. And then coming up, the third part of our series, we’re going to talk about dark social. What the heck is it? Erica is senior digital marketing manager here at Fuoco. She also has the coolest glasses at the agency. Thanks for joining me again today, Erica.

[00:00:58.070] – Erica Freckelton

Thank you so much. Coming from the queen of cool glasses herself.

[00:01:02.390] – Kriste Goad

Well, we try.

[00:01:04.950] – Erica Freckelton

Thrilled to be here.

[00:01:07.270] – Kriste Goad

Awesome to have you back. Let’s just dive in. Can you explain demand creation versus demand capture?

[00:01:14.780] – Erica Freckelton

Yeah, absolutely. Demand creation, we can really think about it as it’s that first part of the funnel. We are priming buyers to have the most informed, productive interactions whenever they’re ready to buy. Hopefully it will be from us whenever that time comes. So really, we’re thinking about done research on the target market. We are proactively educating our target market now on the category they sit in, we’re identifying and helping them explore their problems. And so if we want to think about that traditional marketing funnel, we usually think about awareness, engagement, conversion. We’re really thinking about that top part of the funnel.

[00:01:54.800] – Kriste Goad

And then those particular buyers you mentioned once you’ve done the research on your target market, maybe super quickly, what does that typically look like, that kind of research? How do we get there?

[00:02:06.220] – Erica Freckelton

Yes, I think that part is really important because at least in my experience, sometimes we just jump right into demand creation. And we might not necessarily be speaking to the right folks, but I do think it’s really important to make sure we’re speaking to people who are in market for our solutions and or people who have a need for these or the solutions could address some of their problems. And so I think it’s really partnering with our sales counterparts and helping identify what’s our total addressable market, what problems do we solve? Product marketing really plays a role in this, in just walking through what are the use cases for our product or service and who benefits from them. I think putting all of those things together, the total addressable market, the use cases, sort of reviewing that and determining what the ideal target market is, and then within that, pulling out who are our ideal buyers looking at out of our current clients, who is really the ideal client profile. We could clone them and make more of them. What do they look like? Jotting those characteristics down and then figuring out how do we go get more of these people. That’s who we want to educate on the category.

[00:03:15.450] – Kriste Goad

And that process, in my experience, and I’m assuming yours as well, that can be super quick and dirty or it can be like super intense and using all the tools and drawn out process, it kind of just depends on the company, I would say, and their budget. Would you agree with that?

[00:03:35.780] – Erica Freckelton

Absolutely. It can be one or the other. And sometimes when you do all of the research, sometimes it just sits on a shelf and then you don’t end up using it.

[00:03:44.950] – Kriste Goad

That’s a tragedy.

[00:03:46.570] – Erica Freckelton

It’s heartbreaking. And so I think the real thing is in this research thinking about how are we going to make this usable and where are we pulling this into the next part of this process? That is the most important part of the research is as you’re working on phase one, thinking about how does this flow into phase two. You’re working on phase two, thinking about how does it flow into the next phase of the process. Because too many times I’ve seen good work just get put on a shelf and die. And then the next phase of the project starts and people are looking around like, okay, well, where do we go from here? Go back to the shelf. You’ve got it.

[00:04:19.560] – Kriste Goad

Go back to the shelf. You already did the research, right? Pull that off. Yeah. That’s great advice. So then that’s demand creation and prepping for demand creation and then demand capture is sort of the next

[00:04:33.940] – Erica Freckelton

Yes

[00:04:34.950] – Kriste Goad

it’s like demand creation versus demand capture. So what does that look like?

[00:04:39.510] – Erica Freckelton

So I would say demand creation is the bulk of your time. But then once we get down to demand capture, this could look a lot like lead gen. But I want to say that it’s not.

[00:04:49.760] – Kriste Goad

I need you to talk about that.

[00:04:51.840] – Erica Freckelton

Yes, it’s more targeted than lead gen. So lead gen feels like we are going out and we’re just saying we need you to come here and fill this form out. Like we’re kind of like pushing these things on to people and trying to get their information. And demand capture is much more of you’re going out and you’re just putting yourself in a place where you can acquire those prospects who are already ready to convert. They’ve gone through that demand creation phase already. They can name their problems, they’re looking for something. So it’s fundamentally different just based on the interest of the buyer or the interest of the person we’re talking to. We’re showing up when they’re in a buying mindset and we’re presenting them with a really thoughtful path to conversion and not a moment sooner. And that’s what lead gen gets wrong.

[00:05:42.060] – Kriste Goad

Okay, so maybe take our listeners back to part one of the series. This is related to part one of our series, is it not? And if so, remind us that relationship.

[00:05:56.640] – Erica Freckelton

Yeah. So I think really, in part one, we talked about how things have evolved and what consumers expect and sort of where the market has gone and where marketers should be spending their time. And if we think about where marketers are spending their time, they’re spending so much of their time on this lead gen capture piece of the puzzle. And really they need to shift it up a bit to that awareness, education, think about how we’re creating these really informed buyers who are primed to have these conversations with our teams. Increase that deal velocity. And so it’s just shifting our energy as marketers, our time, our energy, our investment, our marketing dollars up the funnel and then really getting targeted about the demand that we want to capture.

[00:06:44.310] – Kriste Goad

And like you said in part one, you said that’s really hard.

[00:06:48.640] – Erica Freckelton

It is!

[00:06:49.700] – Kriste Goad

Its a lot harder, but if you do spend that time upfront and really think about what that looks like and really think about the content and what people would be searching for or looking for or pondering, they might not even know what they’re looking for, but really identifying what that looks like and what that journey looks like so that you’re creating the right content, It’s a little bit harder up front, but like we discussed, if you can do that and really invest that time up front and then stick to the program, it’s going to pay off in spades over time.

[00:07:31.040] – Erica Freckelton

Yeah, it feels really scary to spend less time on the demand capture piece of the puzzle. But if we think about just like where we as people spend most of our time, we’re also buyers as we go through our day to day lives. If we think about where both of these activities happen and where we spend most of our time, we spend a lot of our time kind of just as B to B buyers bopping around on LinkedIn, seeing what our peers are posting, gathering opinions, thinking, oh, I didn’t know that my company was struggling with that problem. But now that you’ve put words to it, I have a name for that. So that’s really the first part of the problem there, demand creation. That’s where we spend the bulk of our time. And then it’s only once we’ve had a pain point that’s moved us to action that we get into that I’m ready to convert. I need to go seek out somebody to solve this problem for me. And that’s where you then present the prospect with, okay, I don’t know how they knew, but it was the right moment in time and they’re here with a way to contact them.

[00:08:33.120] – Erica Freckelton

It feels like magic, but it’s not. It’s just really great research. Like, it’s good research and good marketing.

[00:08:39.840] – Kriste Goad

And so you’re kind of hitting on my next question, like, where do they both happen, this demand creation? Demand capture?

[00:08:46.950] – Erica Freckelton

Yeah. So demand creation is really taking place anywhere that people are spending time validating problems, identifying solutions, all of those kinds of things. So we’re looking at LinkedIn podcast platforms, spotify, Apple, anywhere you’re listening to audio content. YouTube, it could be happening in LinkedIn groups. Those are also very popular. But also we’re talking about things like Slack groups, Discord, even Reddit. Reddit is a really popular one. I often go there for unfiltered opinions on like, I want to see what people are talking about this product’s name, Reddit and let’s see how real people feel about it. So that’s really where these activities are taking place. And then demand capture. On the other hand, this is really an opportunity for businesses to capture that first party data that we were talking about. Google Ads, that’s where we’re showing up. When someone’s searching and they’re clicking through your own website, that’s another place that it’s happening. We could maybe include review places like G2, but I’m going to say that’s a little bit less relevant in healthcare and more relevant in just straight tech. But I would like for someone to prove me wrong.

[00:10:02.840] – Kriste Goad

So for our listeners that might not know what’s G2?

[00:10:07.680] – Erica Freckelton

G2 is, in my experience, software reviews. So peer to peer reviews, you’re vetting a product, you can see how folks feel.

[00:10:15.700] – Kriste Goad

Awesome. So what does it look like when these things are working together?

[00:10:19.130] – Erica Freckelton

Yes. So when all of these things are working together, it really starts with that create demand on those dark social channels that we are so excited to talk about.

[00:10:28.890] – Kriste Goad

Talk about that in part three.

[00:10:30.700] – Erica Freckelton

Yes. So people are on LinkedIn, they’re hearing things on podcasts, they are in their LinkedIn groups and they’re starting to get interested. They’re starting to be able to articulate what they need. They are getting ready to take that next move. However, because it’s dark social, it’s not quite like that traditional marketing funnel where, okay, we can measure everything with our software attribution and we have this very clear path to conversion, kind of like a black hole. So it goes from that and then into capture demand, bottom part of the funnel. And then there’s also we could also step into other categories. And there’s a concept of Damming demand. If you’d like to get into that.

[00:11:10.440] – Kriste Goad

Damming demand, why would you do that? Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

[00:11:15.190] – Erica Freckelton

It’s good for the company who’s doing it, bad for the company who’s being jammed.

[00:11:22.250] – Kriste Goad

Give me an example of that. What kind of thing would you be damming. You would be like Damming your competitions.

[00:11:29.650] – Erica Freckelton

Yeah, a different category, essentially. So it’s basically you sit in a certain category and you have decided to step out into a different category and get in front of people looking in that category and say, hey, I know you’re looking over here for this product service, whatever, but have you considered mine? I was actually doing client research and had a really great example of this last week.

[00:11:53.620] – Kriste Goad

Tell me about it.

[00:11:55.080] – Erica Freckelton

So I was doing some research in the reproductive health fertility benefits space, and I found a company that was advertising on mental health benefits. That was the keyword they were advertising on. But the service they offer is fertility benefits, mental health, or fertility benefits and reproductive health. That feels like an example of this, because if you’re searching for mental health benefits and mental well being benefits for your employees, and you’re an employee benefits manager, and you end up on a page that speaks to reproductive health and fertility benefits, that doesn’t feel like a one to one match. It feels like we’ve created a bridge there that says, I know you’re looking for information about mental health. Let me explain to you how implementing fertility benefits at your company would improve your employees mental health. Takes a little bit of explanation, but there is a bridge there.

[00:12:50.570] – Kriste Goad

Very interesting. That’s a great example.

[00:12:53.750] – Erica Freckelton

Yeah, I stumbled upon that in the wild this week.

[00:12:58.570] – Kriste Goad

Stumbled upon it in the wild?

[00:13:00.430] – Erica Freckelton

Yeah.

[00:13:00.730] – Kriste Goad

But this is the kind of things we learn when we’re researching for our clients and trying to figure this out. Right. And it’s only by looking do you find it.

[00:13:10.300] – Erica Freckelton

Yes.

[00:13:11.100] – Kriste Goad

That’s really cool. Do you feel like that is it doesn’t really necessarily feel like a new concept, but am I wrong on that?

[00:13:18.910] – Erica Freckelton

It’s not. I think it’s something that people have been doing for a while. I think we’re just calling it something different now. I think whether or not it’s successful, we’ve seen people do this for a while. I think just whether or not it’s successful depends on how you actually execute that tactic and how you’re framing it. And so when you see somebody pull it off, well, you can brand it as something you’re like, wow, that’s a really new thing. And when you see somebody they tried, but they didn’t quite create that link. It’s just like, oh, they’re running a paid search program, and your keywords aren’t aligned to your messages.

[00:13:55.680] – Kriste Goad

That’s when you’re looking at it and you’re going, oh, you can really tell when there’s been a lot of thought put into the SEO ad buy and what you’re targeting and what you’re doing versus just like, sort of putting everything in there and getting all kinds of horrible leads. I mean, we’ve seen this with clients, right?

[00:14:15.880] – Erica Freckelton

Right.

[00:14:16.530] – Kriste Goad

They’re spending a ton of money in some cases on paid search, and they’ve got all the wrong strategy behind it.

[00:14:23.350] – Erica Freckelton

Right. And I’m also a firm believer in not advertising on a keyword unless you can actually show up and meet whatever the searcher is looking for behind that keyword. I think it’s so frustrating as a searcher to click on something and be like, this is not what I wanted. That is an incredibly frustrating experience. And so I think if you’re going to try this strategy, you have to be able to very clearly not just in your ad copy, but also in the landing pages you’re sending people to in all of the materials that somebody interacts with along the way, create these connections. And I think that that’s where brands sometimes miss it, is they just write the ad copy and they say, well, it’s fine, we’ll send them to the same landing page. It’s not they’re not going to make that connection and it’s just going to feel disjointed.

[00:15:08.070] – Kriste Goad

That’s when it really just comes back to, like we said, really thinking it through. If you’re going to spend money and wherever you’re going to spend money, really thinking through the strategy and how they’re all going to link together and how it creates this really smart experience.

[00:15:24.710] – Erica Freckelton

Yeah. It’s so important.

[00:15:26.720] – Kriste Goad

Cool. Okay, this is a great tee up to part three for Dark Social and we’re going to learn more about that in part three. I cannot wait. But for now, that’s the end of part two, ladies and gentlemen. But before we sign off, I’ve got another burning question for you, Erica.

[00:15:46.790] – Erica Freckelton

Let’s hear it.

[00:15:47.810] – Kriste Goad

Okay. If you could go to dinner with anyone, who would it be and what’s the one question you’d ask them?

[00:15:54.840] – Erica Freckelton

All right, I’m going to give you a duo. I’m going to give you

[00:15:58.310] – Kriste Goad

Okay,

[00:15:59.140] – Erica Freckelton

bending the rules. I’m going to give you Michael Hobbes and Aubrey Gordon.

[00:16:04.160] – Kriste Goad

Okay. First you’re going to have to tell me who they are.

[00:16:06.340] – Erica Freckelton

They have a podcast. It’s called Maintenance Phase.

[00:16:11.110] – Kriste Goad

Okay. Shout out.

[00:16:11.900] – Erica Freckelton

I know, right? Shout out to podcast. Aubrey has also written a book. Michael is a journalist and they do a lot of really interesting, informative, well researched content on diet, culture, wellness, all of that. I think it’s so fascinating. And the question that I would ask them is what’s one thing that’s giving you hope right now? I’m very curious with all of their research, what’s one thing that’s giving you a little bit of hope, because a lot of it’s very cynical and dark. So what’s the bright spot?

[00:16:43.770] – Kriste Goad

That’s a great question. That’s something we should ask people every single day.

[00:16:48.040] – Erica Freckelton

I know, right? We could use more of it.

[00:16:50.630] – Kriste Goad

Yeah. I mean, there’s a lot of craziness in our world, but there’s always hope, right?

[00:16:56.710] – Erica Freckelton

Yeah.

[00:16:57.670] – Kriste Goad

Love it. I’m going to have to take a listen to that one.

[00:17:00.260] – Erica Freckelton

It’s such a good podcast. I love it.

[00:17:02.950] – Kriste Goad

Awesome. Well, this has been amazing. Once again, Erica, for all you listeners out there, do not miss the rest of our series and all future podcasts. I’m excited about what we’ve planned for this season. Be sure to subscribe to how it’s done wherever you get your podcast and definitely be sure to tune into part three, Dark Social. What the heck is it? You can also find our podcast and learn more on our website, which is Growwithfuoco.com that’s growwithfuoco.com. Thanks so much, Erica.

[00:17:39.210] – Erica Freckelton

Thank you.

[00:17:40.530] – Kriste Goad

That’s it for now. Thanks so much for listening. We’re looking forward to keeping great conversations coming your way as we grow this podcast, there’s even more great content from our conversations on our blog. Be sure to check it out at growwithfuoco.com. That’s growwithfuoco.com. Stay tuned until next time. And no matter what, stay curious.

• Follow Erica Freckelton on LinkedIn
• Listen to Part 1: How B2B Buying Behavior has Changed (and What it Means for Healthcare Marketers!